What's keeping you from being happy - with Scot McKay

What do sharks, entrepreneurship, and sipping coffee with Pablo Escobar have in common?

Scot McKay! Yes, today's guest has a storied history, and we dive deep into all of it.

In today's episode, Scot shares his leap from employee to entrepreneur, and all the wild tales in between.  His journey from being a challenging employee to becoming a successful dating and relationship coach is not just about romance; it's about the courage to embrace change and the power of laughter in the face of fear.

We discuss the impact that travel and cultural exposure can have on our preconceptions and prejudices. Scott touches on raising children with a global perspective, fostering inclusivity, and how these adventures have reshaped his understanding of happiness and success in his own career and life.

In our final thread, we examine the importance of authenticity and the allure of human connection. Scott advocates for a virtuous masculinity, one that chooses love over fear and finds strength in vulnerability. Whether we're discussing the unconditional love of pets or the magic found in life's simplest moments, this episode is a reminder to listen, be present, and let life unfold with curiosity and openness.

MEET SCOT MCKAY
Scot McKay has shared bad jokes with North Korean military officers, sipped
coffee at Pablo Escobar’s home (served by his maid), survived a shark attack
while surfing, held his breath as the pride of lions walked by his tent, and blitzed
through California canyons with his knee on the double-yellow line at 140 mph.
Yet somehow, he has also been referred to as the “sane one” on Twitter by Scott
Adams, of all people.

But despite once being mobbed by the Dallas Cowboy cheerleaders, being able
to back a 30′ travel trailer into its slot on the first try, and that time he beat the
World Champion at his own sport (no details provided), he’s still the most
objective and down-to-earth dating expert out there.

His show The Mountain Top has also been named a Top 10 Dating Podcast by
DatingAdvice.com, and a long time ago Grader.com weirdly ranked Scot the #1
most influential Facebook user in the world.

Schedule your FREE consultation with Scot and Emily McKay: scotandemily.com/free

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:05

I am welcome to Untethered with Jenless, the podcast that's here to help you break free, be you and unleash your inner brilliance. I'm your host, jen, and in this episode we are going to talk about what keeps you from being happy. Let's dive in. Hey there, friend, it's Jen. Welcome back to the podcast. So today's guest is Scott McKay.

Speaker 1: 0:39

Now, what I knew about Scott prior to him joining is that he has traveled all over the world, has had some wild experiences, like sipping coffee at Pablo Escobar's home that was served by his maid. He survived a shark attack. While surfing, he held his breath as a pride of lions walked by his tent. Like he has had some wild experiences in his life. He's been now I know that he has been to 110 countries, and why I brought him on the podcast was specifically to talk about relationships, because he has a dating podcast. He and his wife are relationship coaches. This is what they do. His show, the mountaintop podcast, has been named a top 10 dating podcast by datingadvicecom, so if you're interested in getting dating advice, you can go and check out his podcast.

Speaker 1: 1:29

That's what we had intended to talk about, but we ended up shifting into entrepreneurship and courage and curiosity, and then we shifted into travel and what that does for the mind and religion, and all kinds of topics that really are all interrelated and interconnected by the number one thing that is keeping us from living a life that we truly, truly love, the number one thing that is keeping us from being happy, whether it's in our relationships, our business, our life, spiritually, wellness all things that are keeping us from truly living our most brilliant life, and that is because we are leaning into fear instead of leaning in to love. We are leaning into knowing instead of leaning into curiosity. So I know you're just going to love this conversation. Scott shares his opinion and his thoughts straight up. He's not shy about what he thinks.

Speaker 1: 2:24

He's not shy about his views. He has a certain lens that he looks at the world through that has been created by all of the things that you're going to hear that he himself has experienced. He's looking through his lens and this is how he sees it, how he sees what is right now, in this moment, and what I appreciate about him is his humility to say that might change over time. This is who I am today and this is what I think today, and this is where I'm at. So hope you can come in and listen to this conversation with a beautiful, open mind, with curiosity yourself, and I hope it brings up something really valuable for you as you listen in and then tune in on Thursday, where I'm going to thread out a little bit out of this episode and go a little bit deeper. So, without further ado, I welcome Scott McKay. Hi, scott.

Speaker 2: 3:12

Hey, how's it going, Jen so good.

Speaker 1: 3:14

I am thrilled to have you here because we're delving into an area where a lot of my listeners and I have not delved into together. We've delved into it on our own, but we have not delved into it or maybe we haven't, in my case, until fairly recently my relationship with spouse. I married to my high school sweetheart and so that is like the last place that I have looked in my life. I'm always like, oh yeah, career. I'm focused in these areas and I've taken for granted much of my life. My husband's my podcast producer, so he's here in this. I've taken for granted my relationship with my husband and so, on this podcast too, what I focus on is what my audience tends to focus on. We haven't talked a lot about relationships, so genuinely thrilled to have you come on and talk to us about it, because it's really important our relationship, not just with ourselves, but with others.

Speaker 2: 4:07

Yeah. Well, when things are going the way we want it to go and we feel relatively satisfied there's nothing broken there, we don't feel the need to fix it right. I mean, why fix what's broken? You just make things more complicated. Besides, it would drive your husband nuts. This is really a great marriage. Let's go work on it. Let's go to counseling. Let's see how we can break it by trying to fix it. Yeah, I fully get why you would have talked about it. Here's the beauty of our peculiar conversation today, jen, is I actually am an entrepreneur as well. I run businesses in a bunch of different niches. I have lots of cute little side hustles going. Only one of them is actually dating and relationships. So we can actually kind of hybridize this if you will. We can run the Prius of podcasts here. We can talk about hybrid things, yeah.

Speaker 1: 4:54

I love it. Well, and under the theme of untethered, what really drew me to you, you seem to have lived quite an untethered life. Scott mobbed by Dallas. Cowboy Unhinged. It's the slight difference between those two things and it depends. It's a fine line.

Speaker 2: 5:11

Yes, well, I'm creative and I'm curious. I like to have a lot of fun.

Speaker 1: 5:16

Yeah, yeah. What has led you to the point that you're at today as an entrepreneur, through all of the experiences that you've had? Why is this the path that you chose, as building businesses for yourself and all of these little hide side hustles, as you say, focusing on relationships as one of them?

Speaker 2: 5:34

Yeah, that's a great question. I took my time getting here. I was raised to believe that if you went into business for yourself you'd have to have rocks in your head. Let someone else deal with legal and insurance and employees and ledgers and getting sued. My dad was like look, just go to work, Get your money, Get home and then you can have your weekend. This makes sense, right?

Speaker 1: 5:57

My dad too. I feel that yeah.

Speaker 2: 5:59

Yeah, all I was told once I got into the IT world is my bosses would come to me and go. You're really really brave and you have a lot of questions and you're really challenging. I said that's a good thing, isn't it? No, you're a terrible employee and you probably need to run your own business someday. I've had a bunch of bosses telling me that You're ruining my curve, you're making me feel like a slacker and I'm supposed to be the one running this company. Why don't you just go run and ruin? I guess we're probably only one letter apart. Never really realized that but true.

Speaker 2: 6:34

Yeah, there's no I in run, but there is in ruin. Hey, I'm going to steal that from myself because I just stumbled across that joke right there, but this is kind of true, isn't it it is true? And so I really was doing great things working in the cubicle jungle. I was succeeding, and then I was getting fired for succeeding because they didn't want to pay me the commissions. And I was thinking maybe there's something to this wanting to run my own company, and where the run ruin thing comes in is I did.

Speaker 2: 7:09

I started getting a little uptight sometimes because of the decision making. I used to work for a company called Lucent Technologies, which was the product oriented spin-off from AT&T, and if you know anything about Scott Adams and Dilbert and his comics, that's the company he worked for. So I literally worked for Dilbert Incorporated and they made the craziest, most horrible decisions and we had to abide by them. So when I first started by business and you're wondering how I got here I'm telling you this is a different angle to this story than I've ever talked about, because this is a lot less pragmatic and a little more subjective. Like what came, what happened in my mindset to make it happen? Yeah, and so it got to the point where I you ever see, like I don't know if it's cars two or cars three, but the older stock cars, tell Lightning McQueen, the kids will tell you when it's time to quit.

Speaker 2: 7:56

It's time to retire. That's happened in two of my careers so far and, strangely enough, even though I'm starting to become the Yoda of my own niche nowadays, I'm older than I look, by the way 57.

Speaker 1: 8:08

I would not have guessed that. I thought you're closer to my age.

Speaker 2: 8:11

I'm not going to ask you your age, I'll just take it as a compliment 41.

Speaker 1: 8:13

41. Oh, it's 41.

Speaker 2: 8:18

I was 41 when my son was born and he's now 16. I also have a 12 year old daughter who was born when I was 45. I found myself running my own company and it wasn't it actually, despite the odds. I mean, nobody believed I could become a professional dating coach. This was the. This was. This was back when the guys who ran the pickup artist stuff you know the game and Neil Strauss's book.

Speaker 2: 8:47

I wouldn't expect your audience to know much about that. Really, we're defining the art of being an internet influencer. This is one of the OGs of internet. Influence was this particular niche. It was really hard to do. It was hard to succeed at. There were probably only like 20, 25 guys in the world making a decent living at it and the only one who believed in me was my fiance, now my partner in both life and business and parenthood and crime adventure, all those things.

Speaker 2: 9:15

I was Emily, but it happened and I. I was doing stupid things. I was making bad mistakes. But here's the thing, remember the run ruin thing. The beauty of it was if I, if management, was making stupid decisions and I had to abide by, I was no longer helpless. I could just look in the mirror and go hey, you made a stupid decision, decision do something right. And I mean the first whole year or two, maybe even that we ran. The company which is the brand is X and Y Communications LLC, and now it's kind of a holding company for a bunch of things. I woke up every day going to work expecting it to be made to feel stupid because I learned something I should have known two years ago, like I was just. The learning curve was immense and there are still things I haven't figured out. But that's how we got here and I'll tell you, rather than making my roots are helping gang kids get on the right track. So I think I frankly I was a coach before.

Speaker 2: 10:16

Coaching was cool and a lot of times people ask me you know, well, you know what's your actually doesn't happen as much as you think it does. But people ask me what my track record is, what's my education? What makes you qualified to be a coach? I literally did undergraduate and graduate work in what's basically coaching before there was such a thing. It's all my, all my education is focused on that and it was great to help kids. But it got to be a little bit of a Vita loco when I got married so I went into the business world. But I just got sick of making a rich company help another rich company get even richer and feeling like a cog in that machine. And so it was really really cathartic and wonderful to be able to build a business and replace my income and do it while helping people find love and making a difference in the world and kind of having a little bit of a global influence. It felt kind of fun to be recognized at airports and stuff like that. Never podcast be number one in its category.

Speaker 2: 11:13

Back in the old school days, you know, as we grew our family, it was nice to have our freedom. We decided that when our kids became school age we weren't going to let the public school system ties down if our jobs weren't. So now we do what's called world schooling our children. We were doing a lot of international travel. My wife and I have been to over a hundred countries together. The kids have been about 30, but then they became heroes at racing BMX and so now we've been doing a lot of BMX racing in the United States for the past several years. So it's just a different chapter and we're doing what we want to do and it's nice to be able to pack up the RV on a Tuesday afternoon and leave for a month and have your neighbors wonder what just happened. Not that their opinion matters, it's just nice for us to be able to do that.

Speaker 1: 11:56

It's still building up business, yeah.

Speaker 2: 11:58

Yeah, yeah, pretty untethered, yes yeah.

Speaker 1: 12:02

This world education. There's a couple of things I want to pull out of all of this and thank you for sharing that full story because there's little bits of it that each of us can relate to. But the world schooling is so fascinating. My husband and I one of the things we do with our nieces and nephews when they graduate college we take them on a trip somewhere. We got to take my nephew this past summer. He's a huge baseball fan, so we went to an East Coast. We put together our own baseball tour and we didn't rent a car, we just took the train and so he got lots of experiences. After, where he came up to me a couple months ago at Christmas and he said my mind is completely opened in a whole new way that it never had been before, and my heart, just like whoa, just came out of my chest because it was just so cool to hear him say that Travel is so huge. How has that influenced and it's not like mostly what we're talking about, but how has that influenced your kids' lives?

Speaker 2: 12:53

First of all, you could line up like six major league baseball stadiums just on the metro liner and then you would be East. That's amazing, yeah.

Speaker 1: 13:02

We went to five. We went to five stadiums total. It was cool.

Speaker 2: 13:05

You didn't leave that Camden Yards, did you?

Speaker 1: 13:06

We went to. That was the first one we went to, so cool.

Speaker 2: 13:09

That warms my heart because I'm a Baltimore. On.

Speaker 1: 13:12

Oh you are. Well, they played the Royals and were Royals fans and Baltimore won. So that was a sad moment, but it was such a cool ballpark.

Speaker 2: 13:19

Yeah, yeah, well, no, I miss like. My brother and his family had that bucket list item to go to every baseball stadium in the United States, and you know we do the same thing and they just completed it, by the way. Isn't that cool, that is so cool.

Speaker 2: 13:33

I have always kind of built my travel bucket list around go to this certain place and do this certain thing, like go to Tokyo, japan, and eat Kaiten sushi, which is the sushi on the conveyor belt right. Or go to Zambia and swim in the Devil's swimming pool. Or go to Ethiopia and, you know, eat Ethiopian food within Jarrah Brad, something like that. Yeah, and I'm always curious. I don't believe what the news people tell me, I don't believe the spin or anything. I always want to see things for myself.

Speaker 2: 14:14

But the hidden benefit to the travel to us is what I think you're asking is it's really hard not to love everybody in the world. It's really hard to hold on to your, to your cognitive biases. It's really hard to hold on to prejudices or any kind of preconceived notion, not only about the people who live in a country, but about the nature of the country's culture itself. It's hard to hold on to the arrogant mentality that Americans are the best at everything. I mean, I grew up watching the Olympics going. How could this guy from Lithuania beat the American? He's the American.

Speaker 1: 14:53

Right.

Speaker 2: 14:54

And you come home and you root for the Lithuania because you've met a bunch of you know and doesn't make me any kind of expat or anything. Or certainly, after all these countries and I don't know what people think of this, but this is actually an informed opinion because I've been to 110 countries I still believe America is the greatest country in there. I understand it's a biased opinion. Australia is really really good, okay, but I you know some of the things that happened there during COVID et cetera, and of course you know we have things we need to work through, but I've never been to a country I'd rather live in than the United States and there, of the 110 I've been to, I really have a lot of respect for the people who live in many of those developing countries because they haven't kind of adopted this hive mind of social media and a lot more critical thinking going on there and people just living with the people in real people, in the real world around them, and they seem oddly happier, you know, than people who just have been buried in social media getting angry. Mm-hmm, is the beauty? Is our kids?

Speaker 2: 15:56

A lot of times people, you know, when they're anti-racist they'll say you know, I'm colorblind. I think that's a shallow way to look at it. I prefer a world, and my kids have been conditioned thus through world travel. I mean, they've been taught, you know, taught, conditioned. I guess taught as a flowery, more positive term than conditioned. My kids have been intentionally taught to see people who they are, inquire about their culture, understand the differences. But I think ignorance creates fear and I think fear creates you know, a word I don't like using, unless it's the right word in the sense, which is hate, and I think hate is the author of all forms of prejudice and bigotry in the world and it's pretty puny if you think about it, because it's all fear. And when you have the courage to go out and understand somebody and what they're doing, it doesn't mean there are some people that aren't going to be inherently cruddy and some people will be better. Most of us have a gray area. We're all kind of in the middle world, we're all human, we have our moments. But when you understand another country and you understand their culture and you understand the people who live there, you don't worry so much about the color of their skin or the God they're praying to or what the political structure of their government is, and you realize the government can be very, very different than the people who live there. And the people who live there are generally very, very nice, wonderful people, and that's how our kids have been raised and that's how our kids live their lives.

Speaker 2: 17:36

And they get confused by anti-Semitism or anti-Islamic feelings or why there's a need for combat racism, and my five-year-old daughter would be like dad, why don't these people just get it? I'll never forget. I took my son and my daughter and my wife all of us we went to on a Middle Eastern trip to a lot of majority Muslim countries, and this was when my son was about six years old or seven years old, so that's about 2014. And my son was like dad why do Americans not like Muslims? These people are really nice and really hospitable, and so it was a great teachable moment and that is that opening of the mind. If you're curious, if you're inquisitive and you know you're this is going to sound like this is going to sound like too much of a meta thought, but you're open to having your mind opened. You know what I mean. First of all, you have to have an open mind, and then there's you have to give yourself the opportunity.

Speaker 1: 18:47

There's a willingness to expand it a little bit further.

Speaker 2: 18:49

There's a willingness and there's the reality of it happening. Right, yeah, and it's just. You come home and you see things a different way than other people did. You read the news a different way than other people have. Like, what's going on between Hamas and Israel right now, our family looks at it through a much more holistic lens. In a world where everybody feels like they just have to take sides or you're not in my echo chamber anymore and you know, we've just kind of just looked past that way of thinking, and not in an arrogant way. But I mean, nobody asks, nobody cares, nobody cares how many countries we've been, nobody ever asks.

Speaker 2: 19:30

People don't care how much you know until they know how much you care, and people don't even give you the opportunity to care until it benefits them somehow, you know. So I mean, we've been places like North Korea and I think the only time anybody's ever asked us what was North Korea like was when their kid was doing a report on it and someone added Emily on Facebook. Because you need to talk to those two because they've actually been there. Oh cool, you know, nobody else cares. So it is a beautiful thing in your personal journey to travel. I think most people should prioritize it and for a lot of people it's the last thing in their budget. There's so many other things I got to get done first before I go travel and I know it's easy to say that, but there's a real, real benefit to travel. Nobody can ever repossess it. It doesn't rust. You know it's not going to rust. So true.

Speaker 1: 20:20

Yeah, yeah, there are experiences from the Middle East going to be there for you, yeah, what you, you get to hold on to that and you're passing it along to your kids too, which is really cool.

Speaker 1: 20:28

Something that you said there about how it just sparked something for me about seeing things as they are. Curiosity is the door to that and, you know, the more and more, the older I get, the more I start to see some of the Buddhist beliefs that in me it just feels like yes, like it is what it is, and the more that we can see it that way, that's more loving, I think. Curiosity, courage, you know, those are all things that are in that loving bucket as opposed to the fear bucket, and we're living so much in the fear and that comes to so many things like holistically Love and fear, and so I just so much of what you say, you're saying, really resonates and also feels affirming, and I hope that some of the listeners might feel that way for themselves, and maybe it's like a permission slip, like go travel, go, let yourself have the experiences I trust so yeah.

Speaker 1: 21:22

So, okay, let's go back to this very interesting thing that you said at the very beginning, your joke about running a business versus ruining a business, and I would love to hear who are going back to that, I think, because it's so true, the more which actually comes to some of these things we're talking about too with divisiveness, because the more I that is in something, the more ego that is in something, the more difficult it can sometimes be. What I'm finding as a business owner is that the more I I remove from my business, the easier it's coming, the more enjoyable it is, the more it's benefiting other people as well. So I'm curious what that experience was for you. When did you make that shift from those moments of what you felt like were maybe failure into starting to have it run more fluidly? What changed for you?

Speaker 2: 22:13

Well, I have to admit, it's a little hard to dist. It's much more difficult perhaps in my business line of business than yours to disassociate us from the product, because we kind of are the product, because we're coaches and we're the forward customer facing image of the company. Yeah, so, to answer your question contextually and the way you asked it, man, there were there over 18 years the way the internet works and what drives traffic and how people are consuming their information and the way they want to consume the information. It evolves and if you don't evolve with it, you get run over like a freight train. So we've had to do that and that, I think, is where your ego can get in the way.

Speaker 2: 23:00

I remember the first couple of years I ran this business. I really, jen, I just detested those pop-up windows that come up on your web page and joined my newsletter. It's like God, this is so annoying so I just I refuse to do it. And someone said well, you big dummy, that's why you only have 200 people on your mailing list. I had a couple of breaks that grew it to like 4,000. I had some people who were a lot more famous than I am. Give me a break and promote me and that helped me grow my email. But when I finally said, just because it doesn't work for me or I don't like it doesn't mean it isn't the right thing to do, or if there's something wrong with it or it's inherently unethical or evil or bad, I think a lot of times as soon as we have a taste for something or a distaste for something, we put good and evil on it, when really it's just someone thinks differently about it. So, 58,000 email list subscribers later, after I had adopted this, while rolling my eyes at it, I realized, you know, maybe sometimes it's better to be correct than arrogant. Also, the simple fact that I'm relationship-oriented and I believe and I like women, and I think that's the secret to my success with women and my wife likes men and we're positive and we're generous and we're givers, doesn't mean everybody comes to us with that mindset. Some people have had a rough experience and they've taken it personally and it's a little bit of the blame game going on and a lot of people really just want to go out and have a lot of sex without any commitment. And you know, if I legislate, if I project onto people and legislate morality and I project, you know you should have a relationship exactly like Emily and I have. You know, that's just really judgmental and it's not really serving the audience who comes to me.

Speaker 2: 24:58

I once got an email from a wonky engineering company that I do business with and they were touting all their engineering features they came up with over the course of the previous 90 days with a quarterly newsletter that they sent to me and they were extremely proud, as they announced, we've been answering questions nobody's even asking and giving you. You know, we've given you features nobody's even asked for yet and I just thought to myself what a waste of time. Yeah, because you know I got this list of like 40 things I wish they did and they didn't do any of them and they spent all their engineering resources answering questions. Nobody's asking.

Speaker 2: 25:33

I think if you let your ego get in the way, especially when you're running a business that's a coaching business or something like that, you'll start answering questions. You think people are asking when they're really not, instead of really doing the market research and listening. You know and you've probably figured out by now that I'd love to listen to myself talk, but listening is paramount to know your audience and, of course, anything that's incongruent with your belief system you avoid. But that's where kind of fine-tuning who your customer avatar is and messaging specifically to the people who you want in the business comes in. But you got to make sure you at least have an audience you know out there for that who actually matches up with that. That's all.

Speaker 1: 26:14

Yeah, that makes a ton of sense and yeah, I mean that listening we and sometimes we even hear that, but we don't hear that because we're just still listening to ourselves yeah, can really get caught up in that cycle. So what do you if there is a business owner, just a simple something that they can do to support themselves in better listening? Do you have any tips for that and how to better listen to your audience?

Speaker 2: 26:46

Well, if you have an audience, survey them, ask them. You may not get the answers packaged the way you want them and you may also find your audience goes. I have no idea. So sometimes you have to read between the lines and you have to like bring up topics in your Facebook group or in your email list or your podcast and just see what resonates and then focus on the things that resonate. Also, the Kess technique is paramount and I have outsmarted myself so many times, like when they go to the website, when folks listening or watching go to the website that I suggested, at the end they're going to find the podcast that my wife and I have been doing together since 2006. That's called X and Y on the fly and I thought that was the greatest name ever because it's so catchy. And then nobody knew what it was. There's no topic, so we called it X and Y on the fly.

Speaker 2: 27:37

Dating podcast is like oh okay, and then we put it in the right category of people listen to it. But it's funny. It's a long form podcast, like 40 minutes to an hour like this, like an interviews. It's interviews and stuff. We decided we wanted a punchier. This was like when everybody was experimenting with this. We wanted to run another show, make it punchier, like two, three minute episodes, like every day, and we called it. I mean, this is two years later dating cast. Wow, you know, we were thinking ourselves into a rut. We outsmarted ourselves. Dating cast is a much better name. You know what it's about and you know what we're up to. So I mean, that was kind of like an aha moment for me to just kind of simplify things. Yeah, not to the point of being simplistic, but you know, simplify things yeah.

Speaker 1: 28:30

Help people find you.

Speaker 2: 28:31

Yeah, and as the years go by I realize I may be sick to death about talking about the basics, but there's people who just joined yesterday who haven't heard it yet. So you have to kind of focus on the fundamentals sometimes and then add the original kind of content to that kind of layer it on.

Speaker 1: 28:48

You know, yeah, I've used this example before, but it's because I used to be such a fan when I was in middle school. But Hanson is probably so tired of singing mbop. But that's really what people come for. And then they get to show the people their new songs. That shows, oh, we're actually really talented musicians. They genuinely are.

Speaker 2: 29:05

I, you know, I read all on the same lines. I read an interview with Don McClain and they asked him do you ever get sick of singing American pie? I mean, you're, you know, one of your only hats, certainly your biggest hits, and it's like nine minutes long. He goes nope, that's it, nope. Good grief, you know, I made him, it, gave him his Wikipedia page. Basically, you know, like what am I going to be sick of it? This is, this is, this is the greatest thing that's ever happened.

Speaker 1: 29:32

Yeah, yeah, well, that's gratitude, right there he's. He's grateful for what it's offered him.

Speaker 2: 29:38

I think the sentiment there is. I could also do a repetitive motion along an assembly line every day for the last 40 years and make minimum wage for it. At least this one brought some blessing with an above and beyond that you know. Yeah, so true.

Speaker 1: 29:53

Well, I'm noticing a thematic in this conversation, a thematic about what you're sharing in general, about an opening or an openness and a listening and a curiosity and letting yourself have experiences. Is there anything else that, across the board, has supported you in crafting this? You know any untethered life that you were loving so much and that your family is getting to experience alongside of you as well?

Speaker 2: 30:19

Yeah, Well, I mean with the curiosity. It was a sense for adventure. I really just want to take a bite out of life. Back when Facebook came out, I started reconnecting with my friends who I hadn't seen for like 20 years. And one of them said you know what I remember most about you, mckay? And I was like, oh God, here we go. And he said you love being alive more than anybody I've ever met. I was like huh.

Speaker 1: 30:40

I'll take that as an compliment. What a compliment.

Speaker 2: 30:42

Yeah, I think there's been an optimism, though I think the optimism drives it Like as could work. I think you know it's glass half full, let's make it still rest of the glass. Let's go do this, I'm up for it. The curious drives that. Curiousness drives that Also. I mean there's two kinds of people. There's people who have a sense of humor and people who think they have a sense of humor. Right, I wanted to make darn sure I was in the former category, not the latter. I mean, easily offended people suck, and if you're offended by that, well, it's a non sequitur to me. Easily offended people suck, that's an insult. You insulted me.

Speaker 2: 31:22

I was like, hey, it wasn't intentional, you know. I just think you know, life's too short to be so wadded up over things and there's a lot of platitudes. You could put up with that. And you know, don't sweat the small things. The most things are small things, all this stuff.

Speaker 2: 31:39

But not a lot of people are curious, Not a lot of people. I mean the sense that can be gorgeous and people just don't even care. Something amazing could be happening and people just keep their nose buried in the smartphone, you know, looking at cat memes, and something amazing is happening in real life right around them, and I want to know more. My family and I we started watching this show that turned out to be fantastic, called Reservation Dogs, on Hulu Turnip it's about. It delves into a, you know, Native American lifestyle and I've come to the conclusion my goodness, we know nothing about these folks. You know, we put them on the reservation and let them do their thing. I have never had to Google so much as I'm watching a show in my entire life and I just think it's great. You know what I mean.

Speaker 2: 32:25

I'm shazamming every song. I'm googling every word that comes up that I've never heard before.

Speaker 1: 32:30

We called it weird and we called it different and we like write it off. It's like not relevant.

Speaker 2: 32:35

Right. And my wife my wife is like no one else is doing what you're doing. I was like this is great, because I've never had to Google so much in my entire life. And my wife was like you know, realize everybody else watches it and just they don't understand it. Just keep going. I said I don't think I have it in me, but the optimism is important, because optimism is what makes life fun instead of making life a drag. Bad things are going to happen.

Speaker 2: 32:58

My wife and I you know people look at our Facebook highlight reel and think we live this charmed life and it's wonderful and I'm I have gratitude. I think the optimism, the gratitude are very important, but I mean, you know, we also have very mundane things that happen and we've had very bad things happen in our family and because my wife and I are going through it together, that's a plus. But you know, nobody gets out of life alive and you know you might as well enjoy what you can while you're doing it. And I know that sounds polyanest to some, but you also got to remember a movie like Life is Beautiful wins an Academy Award because of how it makes people feel. You know, I'll bear it a benign if you've never seen this wonderful movie. It's subtitled, of course, but still won an American Academy Award. He's in a concentration camp in Nazi Germany with his son and he turns it into a competitive competition, a game with his son, and that's what keeps him alive till liberation happens, keeps his son alive and that's why it's a beautiful movie, because he's looking for optimism even in the darkest of circumstances. You know, I don't think enough people are optimistic and I think we're being told by some sort of socio political agenda to think that America is the worst place on earth and people are awful and we're divided than ever. But if you actually believe Twitter or Facebook or MSNBC or Fox News, you're going to actually talk to people like you and I are talking to each other right now and actually in real life, you find out. I want to, just want to be happy and get along and live our lives Black, white, gay, straight and why should I stand in the way of that? I should be a part of that instead of instead of an opposition of that. And sometimes people let themselves become jaded enough where they think they're doing the right thing and really they bought into this narrative and we're all divided and you're wrong and I'm right, but I'm going to rescue you because I'm so great man, just go talk to people.

Speaker 2: 34:52

I would go so far, jen, to say that the cornerstone of my admittedly Christian belief system nowadays is gratitude and humility, whenever we start thinking we've got God figured out. You go to India and you see people doing things that affect you spiritually and go well, that's not in my Bible, but neither is my Ford pickup truck. And you start, you know, like I'm an avid lucid dreamer and I've had people told me that's like Satanic and witchcraft and stuff. I go well, what if it's a gift from God? In my mind I don't feel particularly evil or unblessed or something because I did it and of course, don't get me started on the bless me culture and you know the prosperity, gospel and stuff. God is bigger than we are. We're never going to figure God out and I'm just grateful I'm allowed to get done whatever I get done here and I get another day and you know that humility and that gratitude has made me a lot more spiritually fulfilled. Thank you, you know, since I gave it up, since I gave up trying to figure God out, you know.

Speaker 1: 35:55

Yeah, Ooh, that's powerful. Yeah, this journey has brought me back home to spirituality as well, and in my own way, and just not trying to do it right. So I think we'll try to do, we try to do everything right, we try to do spirituality, we try to get it right, and I think that's from my perspective. That's a lot of the social media things that you're talking about. We feel judged or we feel guilty or we feel all these things, and so then we start to do what everybody else is doing because of all of that feeling, which is all fear-based, right. So it's like that guides us into doing things that really aren't even fully in alignment for ourselves. So I think opening up to that curiosity, having the humility to step back because I think being curious actually takes courage. It takes courage to be one of the people who's willing to say you know what? I have a question about that. It takes a lot of courage to raise the hand.

Speaker 2: 36:47

The whole is a Garnik effect of having an open loop, but I don't know an answer to it. It drives me nuts and I find it amazing that we've been created with that yearning by whatever created us that we can ever understand, because I think it's kind of like what I call God's dirty little trick. I think I just whatever, whoever God is, you know, whoever the Christian God really is, that we can't fathom or understand, just is greatly entertained by us. That's what I really honestly believe. I mean that may sound more like Baruch Spinoza's God than the Christian God, but hey, you know it's hard to deny that's the case.

Speaker 2: 37:24

But yeah, absolutely, I also think that when you have humility and gratitude, it takes a lot of stress off your life, makes you healthier, makes you happier, makes you a better business person, because then you're not demanding, people agree with you and buy what you want to sell them. You're more open because you're genuinely curious. You know, like you alluded to, about what they are, what they want, and you have a passion, you have a purpose, but it's also that's where the roots are. But the branches have to be. You know, they have to provide fruit for the people who actually partake of the fruit. You know what I mean. Hope that's not too deep, but it made sense to me.

Speaker 1: 38:01

Oh, always I'll go too deep on every turn and in fact I want to come back around to your thing you said so flippantly but feel so profound to me which is it's reducing again, that I am letting it be run like let what is supposed to flow out of you flow out of you, and when we remove that I out of it, it just it's really, really powerful.

Speaker 2: 38:23

It feels like if you add I to running something, that's when you ruin it.

Speaker 1: 38:27

Yeah, exactly, it's almost like you know. Yes, it's like the other way around. Yeah, you get to go write your next book about this. Let me know how it goes, scott.

Speaker 2: 38:37

There's no I in team, but there is an I in ruin. Yeah, I love it. Thank you so much. Yeah, good.

Speaker 1: 38:46

You could take this really far. There might be. There totally might be. I ask every guest who comes on this podcast one question, and so I'm going to pose it to you. Uh-oh, it's not a hard one, or maybe it is, I don't know, we'll see. Scott, where do you see the magic in the world?

Speaker 2: 39:04

People, human beings, I mean any living creature. Actually, we train Whippets now and everybody loves Whippets and thinks they're the coolest breed of dog, but nobody would dare have one because they're high maintenance, they're just really high strung and run, run, run, run. And my daughters, you know, like I said, we race things in this family. My daughter wanted a new puppy and she gave me 30 days of wanting the same actual dog and then we'll go get it because, you know, every day it went from a Westie to a Bostie, to a Frenchie and now it was a Whippet. Because she wants to teach it how to race and she's done a great job at it. We're on our second Whippet but you know, I grew up not having pets and I've become a dog person. Even though they're a pain in the ass, it's because they'll love you unconditionally and so you got to love them back and they're just so cute. They have this look in their eyes and they do cool things and you know, that's heartwarming, I think, for a lot of men.

Speaker 2: 40:06

We, you know a lot of men are being taught that we need to reclaim masculinity, and we do. But that's vis-a-vis being told our masculinity is toxic and that's an agenda, because, in order to you know if you're coming from really any kind of world religion by the way, the whole idea of fear being the opposite of love is not anti-Christian. If you read your Bible in the original languages, that's basically how it goes. You know if God is love, you know the satanic influence is fear-based. Anytime there's fear and mind control, that's not coming from God, right?

Speaker 2: 40:44

So you know, when you have this idea of people being afraid and they start loving instead, you know, someone asked me on a podcast what true love was, and it seems like the big holy grail for marriage is when you stop fearing your wife, right? So the whole idea of a toxic thing has to be a perversion of something that was created in love, right? And so there has to be virtuous masculinity, and yet it seems like society wants to. You know, there's certain huge guys or huge followings out there who say, yeah, you know what guys. Double down on the toxic masculinity. Tell them to screw themselves and we're going to be toxic together. By the way, be stoic, just scowling everybody. It'd be tough and do hard things. I'm like God, every Clint Eastwood movie I've ever saw where he was scowling at everybody. He didn't have a girlfriend.

Speaker 1: 41:44

So true.

Speaker 2: 41:45

And then the guys were charming and bringing out the fun and invite a feminine nature to come out and play who are really the masculine. And so, you know, inviting, you know, people to freely be who they are men, women that makes life more fun and it kind of takes you away from fearing being judged and fearing becoming something or not. And we're all hardware this way, hardwired this way. And again, I mean, if you're curious enough to go old school like that, you start realizing it works. You know. I think that's just another little fun thing to lay on top of this whole love versus fear thing, because I think guys in particular, and maybe a lot of the ladies in the audience will be, maybe this will solve a puzzle for them. Like not understanding man, we think we got to be all tough and be dangerous and stuff like that. And I mean you know we have to do what's hard when we have to.

Speaker 2: 42:47

That doesn't mean sometimes what's hard is listening to your wife, you know, like one of the guys I know I mean this is going to sound, it's going to get real visceral, but I mean he's real tough and he does Brazilian jiu-jitsu and runs business and scowls and everybody, you know, but one of his loved ones was dying of cancer. He didn't have the guts to go see her because he didn't want to see her that way. He'd freak him out. Well, the hard thing to do is go there, be there for her and stop worrying about your own self. Well, apparently that was too hard. But see, that's because the internet will tell you if you do Brazilian jiu-jitsu and crawl in the mud and do tough mutters and things like that, then you're doing what you're supposed to be doing as a man. But that's again a lack of curiosity and a lack of thinking for yourself. But I'm really glad we had this conversation.

Speaker 1: 43:35

Yeah, me too. Me too, I love that entire, everything that you just showed there. I'm glad that you brought it back to relationships. I'm glad you mentioned dogs, because I've got a new rescue dog and allowing him to be himself. That's actually my most loving act that I can do for all of us, for our relationship together, for us and the same. That's what I'm finding with my husband. It's really getting over my own fear, getting over our own fear of having a hard conversation, getting over the fear on both sides that feels like that's just such a strong thematic of this conversation and what I'm personally feeling in my life as well. So thanks for bringing it back to that.

Speaker 2: 44:11

Yeah, you were talking about the magic. As you wrapped it there, there's this old Edie Brachelle song I think it was her only song and it says philosophy is the talk on a cereal box, religion is the smile on a dog. That's what that lyric means. That's what the magic is. It's an interacting. I would say it's mostly about human to human interaction.

Speaker 2: 44:40

We have these guys called men going their own way and at the risk of offending someone again, fourth wave feminism has become very angry. It's anti-man sometimes, and when men and women start really detesting each other and blame each other and claiming victimhood, I've never seen anybody be happy in that. And so the guys, I really enjoy women, I really respect women and I love women who love men and believe in us getting along. And my wife and I are like that. My wife, it's always love boys and I've always loved girls. And here we are.

Speaker 2: 45:15

You know, those guys who are like in the house focus on the men, the men who are in, the men going their own way. They can't stand my message. They need me not to exist. And it's not that they well, that's not that they. They think I'm wrong. They need me to be wrong. They call me a unicorn, or you got lucky, or some extenuating circumstance causes your wife to be with you. A lot of, a lot of shot and Freud, but there's a magic in that. You're just going to die angry and alone. The magic is embracing other people and I think the cure more curious you are about the other people I mean, you know, let's bring it full circle. That's the best reason to travel is to meet the people you know and I. That is where the magic is, and I mean I'm not sure it's even magic, it's just kind of like a truth waiting to be uncovered.

Speaker 1: 46:09

Yeah, Thank you so much for this. I'm fascinated by you. I loved hearing all of the things that you had to share and how you're so willing to share your open perspective. I think that's something that a lot of us are scared to do this day and age and I appreciate you hearing or you sharing your genuine, authentic expression. So thanks for coming on and sharing. Where can people connect with you, work with you and find you?

Speaker 2: 46:33

Well, I appreciate you. I always appreciate the opportunity to have conversations like this and share with a new audience. Hey, we would love to meet you, we would love to introduce you to the podcast and if you're interested in your relationship, whether you're married or are still single, man or woman, go to Scott and Emily dot com, front slash free, because everybody loves something free. Right, my name is, with one, t S C O T, m C K A Y, and Scott and Emily dot com is S C O T A N D E M I L Y dot com, and put front slash free on top of that or in front of that and when you get there you can download my book. It usually goes for $37 in the store all day long.

Speaker 2: 47:13

You can get the ebook and the audio version for free. Just, you know, no strings attached. And then in the middle of the page will be a podcast for women which is actually for both men and women, called X and Y and the fly. And when I mentioned before and if you happen to be a man listening to the show, that the the overwhelmingly popular you know podcast we have for guys of character who are interested in relationships and being better men and being better with women is called mountain top, the mountain top and you'll find that on the right we have relationship programs of men's and women's version. You'll find on there and if you want to talk to us and get to know us, we'd love to hear from you and you can schedule 25 minutes with us for free right at the bottom of that very page at Scott and Emily dot com front slash free Amazing.

Speaker 1: 48:00

Thank you so much for coming on and sharing Everybody. The links are in the show notes so you can go and check it out and connect with Scott.

Speaker 2: 48:06

Thank you, Jen.

Speaker 1: 48:07

Thank you, wow. I really cannot wait to hear what you think about this episode and all of the things that might have come up for you. So one of my intentions with the podcast this year is to explore some arenas where I have not explored before, to invite some perspectives on that I've not invited before and Scott was a wonderful delve into that environment. So give me a little ping and let me know what you think. I'm hello, jenless. You can email me at. Hello at Jenlesscom. You can reach out to me. I'm at untetheredgen on Instagram. I would love to hear what you think of this tune into Thursday's episode, where I'm going to pull out a little thread from our conversation with Scott and delve a little deeper. Thank you so much for listening. It means the world to me that you did. You just keep shining your magical unicorn light out there for all to see. See you next time. Bye.